Marriages – Love or Arranged

July 21, 2006 at 4:59 am 82 comments

Lot of people advise me to go for love marriage. When I try to tell them that I feel that arranged is the choice for me, they seem aghast as if a great crime has been committed! (I can count so many people who were almost shocked on hearing my words) Well, they did try to rescue from this ill decision. Most people think arranged is a decision forced on kids. However it is not that. It is often with veto powers both with parents and kids. It incorporates the maturity of parents and contemprory understanding of kids. It takes the family along long way.

I do not think that every case of arranged marriage is better than every case of love marriage. I know it is not since I have seen good cases on both sides. However, what I know is that on the whole system of love has low score on success. Hence, I think people need to reflect and improve on where it is going wrong for many people.

It is a logical world and so it is normal to point to performance indicators. Bad performance indicators, as logical people call them, mean there is something wrong that needs to be fixed. However, many of us are so brain washed by romantic epitomes in Hollywood and Bollywood movies that we fail to recognise some of the critical shortcomings in romance/love. However, I present here some indicators that shed light on shortcomings that are too stark to ignore and too critical to be brushed aside. Some may think that I am saying here is love is not good. That is not my intention. My intention is to bring to light the problems the system is facing in many countries and avoid those by knowing about them. While my majority of stats will show problems, some countries are still doing pretty well with system of love and present an opportunity to learn. Unfortunate thing about those doing good is that they do not know for sure why they are doing good and they are progressively sliding toward those who are doing bad. I encourage readers to be candid about this and facts based. It is not a war between systems. It is an attempt to explore problems and solutions. I am not proposing arranged as solution of all ills. I am saying arranged is not bad. In fact, with changing world, arranged may get wiped out completely from world systems of marraiges. And it may also face new problems due to a changed world and may need to understand and solve those in order to be a success. However, love and any system we choose should be improved according to what would be good both for the individual and the society with development and adoptation of improvements being an individual decisions. However, like business best practices are promoted by many business magazines/journals, the family best practices could be promoted by magazines.

What are the evidences that system of love is not all that perfect as shown in romantic movies? In most developed countries more than 50% of all love marriages fail. And more than 60% of second marriages also fail. Over that, in america, according to a govt survey, only 33% of kids have both a father and mother at home (even counting step father and step mother). All this is result, inspite of choosing your own partner yourself (while ignoring your parents and family participation in it)? Is it not? Then with such dismal records how can people come to tell me that it is indeed love which is a great system? Can a system be good if it’s results are so poor? Should we continue to believe what Hollywood and Bollywood packs and provides us for entertainment ? Or, like very rational people we are, we should challenge the assumptions.

On other hand, arranged marriage in India, have been a long tradition. Along with it, has been the tradition that divorce has been an unheard term. Also, that means majority of kids have both father and mother at home. This will definitely help in kid’s development in growing stage. I know that times are changing and so to keep up with it, it is important for people to change. However, it does not mean that we leave what is good for what has a dismal performance history. I feel we need to innovate to incorporate the good of arranged and good of love together. Not a random mix but a mix that gets the strength of both.

So, we have seen how the longevity and good family makeup have been two strongholds of arranged marriage. Moreover, it provides for a system where kids in their formative stage have relatives who can protect and guide them. So, it is good even in social terms in providing a good nurturing of kids and providing socially healthy next generation to society and a generation that can learn and work hard due to good guidance from their previous generation. So, in three key performance indicators of longevity of family, care for kids and providing a good next generation to society, arranged marriage outperforms love one. A marriage that is not even stable itself, how can it provide stability to kids or society?

Some of my friends say that arranged is hipocrasy. How can you marry someone you do not love ?

What is honesty then ? Marrying someone you love ? Then how come all over the world it fails with 70% probability ? I think why 30% succeed is that they realize that continuous perfection is not possible, there will be times when you will feel frusrated, angry or doubtful and yet people continue. Adjusting sometimes is not hipocrasy. It is being honest.

However, if you take out the concepts of perfection from love, it is not much different from arranged. Afterall in arranged you do not marry someone random.

“A long while ago, a great warrior faced a situation which made it necessary for him to make a decision which insured his success on the battlefield. He was about to send his armies against a powerful foe, whose men outnumbered his own. He loaded his soldiers into boats, sailed to the enemy’s country, unloaded soldiers and equipment, then gave the order to burn the ships that had carried them. Addressing his men before the first battle, he said, “You see the boats going up in smoke. That means that we cannot leave these shores alive unless we win! We now have no choice—we win, or we perish!

They won. Every person who wins in any undertaking must be willing to burn his ships and cut all sources of retreat. Only by so doing can one be sure of maintaining that state of mind known as a BURNING DESIRE TO WIN, essential to success. “

Napoleon Hill calls this idea – Burning Bridges. And I call it committment. And I assert that while in some extreeme cases it is good to have retreat bridge but extreeme cases only occur 5% of times and we could be quiting too easily.

I think marriages are not same as romance and love as shown in movies is faulty since we are dealing with humans with human follies and differences of opinions will happen when we share common consequences of life with someone… Fiction can show people and relations as perfect. Real humans, relation and situations are unlikely to be as good. It could be improved with soft management training for all people of world. It becomes useful in those 10% of communications where we have negative aspects like disagreement. However it is management of these occasional differences of opinions and conflicts that becomes quite important to relations. Then also people would not become super communicators and managers. Most real humans will have insecurities, jealousy, communication problems and scientifically proven to be biologically there in every human being, the “fight or flight” (also see : this link on fight or flight ) response. Protagonists in love movies do not have these fallacies. Somehow, they are superhuman and super communicators. One can say romance time people do not have these fallacies also. That is because at that time both are wooing each other and validating each other. At that time they do not need to adjust or settle disagreements on major issues like one invariably have to after marraige. Hence, the fallacies of human beings are less apparent during courtship. However this perfection of courtship and movies leads to wrong expectation levels. So, most of people go into marraiges with wrong level of expectations. I think it would be good to keep expectations realistic, where movies and romances may not help.

I agree that my whole analysis is based on today’s scenarios and it is quite possible that love could be modified to incorporate the strengths of arranged by making it a mix between the two and the strengths of the two. However, that is beyond scope of what I am discussing here. Maybe another day I will analyse that too. Also, I am no expert. Some of my claims might be wrong. I am just making a case for reflection into the system. To pause and think. You see, in singapore the performance of love marraiges is exceptionally better than US and UK (only 30% failure rate compared to 75% failure in UK and 66% in US). But I do not know the reason. And unless we know the reason, we can’t learn.

These statistics gives us chance to re-evaluate what may be the ways to strengthen relationships. Moreover, as you will agree with comment of Veena (see the comments of this post by clicking here), past success of arranged marriages also do not ensure success for arranged marriage system in future. Things are changing and hence one needs to revaluate the reasons and ways to make one’s own relation succeed. One thing pointed by Veena and that I agree very much is to give your spouse a chance to know you better. Not to put the burden of expectations from romantic movies on your spouse.

I think it is in our interest to challenge our sense of invulnerability. To make efforts to avoid the pitfalls where people before us have fallen. It is upon us to make a working system that gives a better future for us and our society.

Shishir

References

I am providing these as cases of facts that point to a broken system in system of love. Do note that if love was as good as movies show it, this should not be the case (70% failing). Something must be wrong that inspite of the seeming rightness of choosing a wonderful person for yourself does not work as well as movies show. Obviously the present love marraiges in US and UK are doing something really wrong. However, note that they do not even realize what they are doing wrong, or that they are doing something wrong. And if that is the case, then it is case of skilled incompetence (as a famous management researcher, chirs argyris calls this kind of process), or a case where people are so used(skilled) to failing that they do not consider it failure at all even in face of evidences. Singapore is a puzzle. Inspite of being a country where marraiges are based on love, my manual calculation of success rate came out quite better than UK and US. It is these KPIs that I use to assert that though individual case to case might be different but system of love is a failure on the whole to find a good marriage, provide stable family for kids and giving a good next generation to society. Lets come with strategies, like businesses do to avoid failure and improve KPIs. Maybe even learn what arranged was doing right that it was so successful.

For US
Divorce Rate – 66% of first marriage fail http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_23/sr23_022.pdf (thick PDF, look at page 26, fig 16)
Children having a mother and a father at home (considering even step mother and fathers) – 33% http://lifestyle.msn.com/FamilyandParenting/NontraditionalFamilies/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=25248>1=6961

For Singapore
Divorce Rate – 30% (calculated myself, so may be inaccurate) http://www.singstat.gov.sg/keystats/surveys/marriages.pdf

For UK
Divorce Rate(first marriage) – 70-80% (not enough patience to find more details of second and third and fourth attempts)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1502007.stm

For China
Divorce Rate – 20%
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-03/01/content_420456.htm

For OECD (Avg of 30 Countries In Americas, Europe, Australia and Asia, See countries here)
Avg Divorce Rate (per 100 marriages, including remarriages) : 41%
Avg Crude rate for first marraige: 56%
Avg Percentage of people disillusioned with marriages in these countries since 1970 (% reduction in marraiges) : 40%
(which means that if in 1970, 100 people used to go for marriage on an avg in these 30 countries, now a days, only 60 go for it. Rest 40 maybe go for cohabitation, live bachelor etc)
http://www.oecd.org/document/24/0,2340,en_2825_497118_2671576_1_1_1_1,00.html
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/34/28/34542290.xls

India
Divorce Rate – 1.1%
http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501040405/story.html

Skilled Incompetence
The article is available at harvard business online here

Group Think (Are we in a case of massively popular groupthink ?)
See the concept at
http://www.groupthinkfilm.com/
Buy highly acclaimed movie about it at http://www.crmlearning.com/groupthink-2nd-edition (or view in your nearest library)

Fight or Flight
http://www.stressstop.com/articles/article1.html
http://www.pertinent.com/articles/communication/kareCom8.asp

Interesting Article – Great Expectations
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20040301-000002.html

Q 1. Why are only roughly 44% of first marraiges succeeding in 30 countries in OECD inspite of wonderful guidance by movies ?
Q 2. Why are more and more people getting disillusioned with marriage (40% decrease since 1970 in 30 OECD countries) ?
Q 3. Why do those who succeed, succeed ? Why do you think those who fail, fail ? Specially for libertated countries like America, UK, Australia, Sweden etc why is the rate so high ? Does liberation mean that two people can’t stay together for life ?
Q 4. Why are birth rates falling in these countries to appaling levels ? Someone gave us gift of life, is it not our responsibility to pass the favour if possible ?
Q 5. Can one get disillusioned with partner after marriage ? Then how can love be perfect like movies show? Then are movies not just for entertainment and not realistic most of times ?
Q 6. Can one find a perfect match ?
Q 7. What do you think can be done to improve the KPIs ? Is it worth improving it ?
Q 8. Do people need to adjust in marraiges ?
Q 9. Is being individualistic same as being selfish in short term and buying all new ideas that movies show you as real and call yourself individual becuase you do different things which may or may not lead you to your aim ? Do you critically analyse thoughts given to you for making realisitic sense ?
Q 10. Is the whole question of being happy ? Then is it not better to have more realistic expecations from relationship ? Have you gone to a good movie with high expectations to find it worse than if you had gone with realistic ones ? We are same. It is much about setting the right level of expectations. Remaining single and kicking/rocking might be easy way out … but is it the right way ? Would you like the human race to finish so early?
Q 11. Sounds dismal ? Now do you think the arranged marraiges YOU have seen were really that bad ? They gave the couples partners to share life with for life, even if there were small troubles now and then which required some adjusting, was it as bad as what you see happening in world ?
Q 12. Do you think that 44% of first love marraiges that succeed (in 30 OECD countries) do not adjust to each other and become more mature with time ? So, is life all about thinking of the personal ego ? What is in it for me (in immediate sense) ?
Q 13. Are facts not pointing to Arranged being followed by love, that followed by live ins, followed by single and kicking, which will be followed by possibly extinction of human race ? Who said diansours died due to ice age? I think they became individualist. Individualistic people (which you are not) it seems can’t maintain relationships, be it with parents, family, friends… Coz society today teaches us to only prove that we do not need anyone to live happily. We will prove it. Won’t we ?
Q 14. If only we could love humans and not want to love the image of perfection from movies… maybe we would be better off… Would we ?
Q 15. If you will, can love be defined as that undying committment that will not waver whether rocks fall on it, fire try to burn it or god tries to come in between. Then that committment and trust is love. Rest what you see in movies is rubbish. Then in a arranged is love not possible ? Then in love is love not possible ? I say we need to accept humans as humans and improve our own communication skills. I say we need to keep family intact including parents of both husband and wife. Children also want more well wisher and parents also deserve a good treatment for having taken care of us when we ourselves could not. For when they sacrificed many things for us.

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Stub Stage Fright

82 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Veena  |  July 21, 2006 at 5:58 am

    Arranged marriages definitely work. But in the modern world, it only works if both parties make the effort to make it worth. And the main reason for this is that people go into arranged marriages thinking it is love marriage. Ppl want the other party to instinctively understand you, know you and all your likes dislikes etc…they dont realise that the other person most probably has not even come to the stage of knowing your birthday yet!

    Reply
  • 2. shishircc  |  July 21, 2006 at 8:25 am

    Hi, I can imagine this could become a problem. Life is changing fast. A lot of things about arranged marriages that were true yesterday do not hold true any more. I also tend to be romantic having been fed on too many bollywood/hollywood movies and I could fall for that kind of expectation from spouse.

    Shishir

    Reply
  • 3. hoo  |  July 22, 2006 at 2:14 pm

    Divorce was unheard of in India because it was a social taboo. Even if the husband and wife are leading a miserable life, they woule never divorce in order to save face. As the Indian society becomes more open (one hopes), expect lots of divorce cases in India too.

    Love marriages can work, but only if the partners have known each other for a while and are comfortable with each other. If there is any pressure on them to marry, or they don’t know each other well enough before taking the plunge, there is a high chance of divorce.

    Reply
  • 4. hoo  |  July 22, 2006 at 2:15 pm

    By the way, I hope you will keep publishing articles like this, and not post how satisfying was shitting in the morning. 95% blogs nowdays only contain crap. Keep up the good work. Remember, quality, not quantity.

    Reply
  • 5. shishircc  |  July 22, 2006 at 2:17 pm

    hoo, if that were the case then live ins would ensure success would they not ? And I do not agree that the only reason arranged succeeded was because people were saving faces in face of a failed marriage.

    Reply
  • 6. shishircc  |  July 22, 2006 at 2:22 pm

    the reason I said I do not think that the only reason arranged marriage success was people were saving face by hiding failed marriages is becuase when I look back at my school days I see each and every studint having a great family life. Something that is unimaginable in the developed countries like america where broken family is the norm. I am sure that every family of my classmates was not saving face and trying to hide a failure. The success is too widespread for it to be the case.

    Reply
  • 7. Shishir  |  July 24, 2006 at 10:11 pm

    I feel that to be not misleading, the romantic movies should come with statutory warning. “Statically, this romance is likely to to fail with 70% probability”.

    I am not saying that inherently love is required to fail. However I think the way it is depicted in movies, it is likely to fail if we try to find something like that. Also there is the factor of love being blind initially. When eyes open, world might look very different.

    Reply
  • 8. Sanak  |  July 25, 2006 at 8:44 am

    Intersting observation and a grt read but comeon dude…if u fall in love all the rationale and percentages go down the drain…hahaha….chill buddy

    Reply
  • 9. Shishir  |  July 25, 2006 at 9:41 am

    Ha ha, thanks sanak. I understand what you mean. However I feel that it is better to ask questions and earlier than later… That way we can improve and avoid failures that others might be experiencing. If we ask questions when we fail, it would be too late or reactionary. Reactionary reactions are hardly ever useful. Most likely if milk is spilled we will find an external cause for it rather than lack of carefulness.

    Reply
  • 10. Swathi  |  July 25, 2006 at 2:10 pm

    Hmm interesting post. I totally agree with Shishir regarding the bollywood movies these days. But as Sanak said falling in love and being rational at the same time, do not go together. However, I wish the new generations will be able to find a middle stage where a love relationship can be turned into a arranged marraige which can involve both set of families. God Bless Indian couples.

    Reply
  • 11. Veena  |  July 26, 2006 at 9:11 am

    Shishir:

    Agree with you about Bollyhood movies. They have sentimentalised and idealised so many things and have become so pervasive in modern Indian society that kids of today are beginning to find figuring reality from fiction difficult. The rate of kids jumping from buildings coz superman did it or eloping and running off to a friends house coz some guy in some movie did is increasing exponentially.

    I also agree with Sanak regarding rationale and logic going flying off the window when cupid strikes. However it often dosent take long for this same rationale and logic to come barging in, though usually by then its just too late. Guess experience teaches you to always keep the door open for them :)

    Reply
  • 12. Shishir  |  July 26, 2006 at 11:02 am

    Lot of friends have commented to me in person about problems in arranged marriage. My friends have pointed out what is wrong with it. I am summarising the response I got in emails.

    1. Some of my friends say that arranged marriages are not happy. Like we do not know the percentage of marraiges in 98.9% which do not go for divorce, how many are actually happy ?

    I would say let us look back to our school and college and try to recollect how many of our batch mates had a “MAJOR” problem at home. I am sure not many. Compare that to US and UK. Majority of kids have a broken home or MAJOR problem. Does that not show success of Arranged? I assert that by casual observation we can see widespread success of arranged system in producing marriages that do not have major problems.

    I would add that it is unreasonable to expect not to have minor problems at home. If we expect movies kind perfection only thing we will get is .. well nothing. those expectations are too tough to fulfill in real life.

    2. Arranged is hipocracy. How can you marry someone you do not love ?

    What is honesty then ? Marrying someone you love ? Then how come it fails with 70% probability ? I think why 30% succeed is that they realize that continuous perfection is not possible, there will be times when you will feel frusrated, angry or doubtful and yet people continue. Adjusting is not hipocracy. It is being honest.

    However, if you take out the concepts of perfection from love, it is not much different from arranged. Afterall in arranged you do not marry someone random.

    “A long while ago, a great warrior faced a situation which made it necessary for him to make a decision which insured his success on the battlefield. He was about to send his armies against a powerful foe, whose men outnumbered his own. He loaded his soldiers into boats, sailed to the enemy’s country, unloaded soldiers and equipment, then gave the order to burn the ships that had carried them. Addressing his men before the first battle, he said, “You see the boats going up in smoke. That means that we cannot leave these shores alive unless we win! We now have no choice—we win, or we perish!

    They won. Every person who wins in any undertaking must be willing to burn his ships and cut all sources of retreat. Only by so doing can one be sure of maintaining that state of mind known as a BURNING DESIRE TO WIN, essential to success. “

    Napoleon Hill calls this idea – Burning Bridges. And I call it committment. And I assert that while in some extreeme cases it is good to have retreat bridge but extreeme cases only occur 5% of times and we could be quiting too easily.

    I have a theory for why marriages face trouble. Let me know if you think I am on right track. See, as kids we are never required to adjust much. We are used to a system and parents often entertain all our tantrums and we hardly feel need of adjusting. Then come friends. We don’t have to live with them or suffer common results, so we can again avoid adjusting again. If we differ we simply avoid that topic. Then comes marriage (I am skipping romance). Here two people for first time are required to adjust. These people are from different families and they can’t simply avoid all differences of opinions. So it is first opportunity to learn conflict resolution and adjusting in real terms. People who go into marraige with the knowledge that there will be adjustings required and there will be conflicts (and hence not high expectations) enjoy lesser conflicts in first place. But then conflict of opinons do take place. So, often they go back to their parents or friends sulking that other person is not good. However, if parents fuel the conflicts, the couple are doomed. Instead if they convince them you have to solve this, that is in your interest, then couple come back together to this time solve conflicts themselves. And as they solve conflicts, at times adjusting here and there, they develop a level of emotional maturity. However if they had quit at face of conflicts they would be no more mature emotionally and in ability to resolve conflicts. Here role of friends and parents become important. If they convince the couple that it is thier interest to solve problems they have done something remarkable. Also then it also depends on mindset and views the couple have learnt from childhood. If they have encountered stable marriages more and hence believe somewhere that conflicts need to be solved, then they will accept the arguments of friends and parents. Once, they become good at solving their conflicts themselves they progressively become more emotionally mature and lesser likely to have problem with conflicts.What do you think ? It makes sense ?

    3. Some friends of mine have said arranged marriages have physical abuse at home.How many percent of marriages do we think have that ? Can we estimate it ? Do we really think that 70% of the marriages that fail in UK are all abusive relationships ?

    Well, however, I know arranged marriages are things of past in times to come. I know becuase that has happened in China, Singapore and UK in past. It disappeared.

    Reply
  • 13. Sanak  |  July 28, 2006 at 2:47 am

    Dude shishir….i think bottomline is arranged or love …u have to get ur marriage to work…if u dont then odds r it will fall apart
    in love marriage its just that u know the person beforehand so its easier to talk to and resolve issues while in arranged marriage it takes some time to know the person ….

    Reply
  • 14. Shishir  |  July 28, 2006 at 3:45 am

    I agree with the bottom line. One has to work to make marraige work. Maybe thats what is making Singapore perform better than UK and US for past many years. Here people understand what you are saying. Thanks Sanak.

    Reply
  • 15. Shishir  |  July 28, 2006 at 5:17 am

    Thanks for the good feedback Sanak. I understand your concern that both love and arranged basically need to do same thing to succeed and that can be done. However, for benefit of all what do you think could be done in general by people to make their marriages more successful ? Maybe give your analysis of why UK and US 70% of first marriages fail and why Singapore only 30% and India only 1.1% ? Also, suggest why love marriages you propose are not as vulnerable as the cases I pointed out ? Also maybe tell your acceptable level of failure rate of any system before you start to critically analyse it. Finally, based on your analysis, can you suggest the best practices that make successful case successful and failures a failure ?

    Thanks
    Shishir

    Reply
  • 16. Paul  |  July 31, 2006 at 11:40 am

    Shishir, I believe our society is in a transition. Trust me, I dont think its a good idea to marry someone in 2 meetings. Moreover, I do agree to you that arrange marriages are more successful. I feel there is one more factor i.e age. If we fall in love at an older age, it tends to last and be healthy marriage. Men/Women muture again after 25, priorities change, life is more clear. So, Fall in love but marry after one thinks, hes/shes muture and consistent, or go for arranged marraige. I would be very keen to know, if you can comment on a system of arranged marriage which is more flexible than old one. What other factors can we add to the arrange marriage that would make it more transparent…. definitely, there is a way between n love/ arrange required for current society.

    Reply
  • 17. Shishir  |  August 1, 2006 at 4:26 am

    Thanks Paul. I think you have proposed an important thing about age and maturity. I think both are important and inter related. At times, even with age, we keep expecting perfection of movies in real life. We still, at times feel that somehow somewhere we will find that one perfect person with whom we will not need to adjust.

    Your point about age is well taken. In fact that seems to be very true for singapore at least. Like here most marriages take place at a later age. 70% success here may be partly due to it.

    I do not know what will be a good system. It will need introspection and research to come to.

    Please keep up with good constructive ideas. I think swathi also gave some ideas. I do not know how much they will help but it is good to think in that direcion.

    Reply
  • 18. Shishir  |  August 1, 2006 at 4:38 am

    Have you noticed how popular movies show friends and life partners are similar ?

    I disagree that friends and life partners are that similar. Do you live and share common consequences of life with any friend ? This difference make the big difference that with friends you need not adjust and only share empathy and joy. For life partner, can you afford to not adjust ? Can you afford not to have valid disagreements when a common decision has to made ? So many people think that when we have such great relation with friends, we should be able to have similar great relation with life partner. I feel, there is a difference between the two. And I feel being honest about it key to right expectations and success.

    What do you think ?

    Reply
  • 19. Shishir  |  August 1, 2006 at 11:28 am

    Veena, I could initially not understand your comment about expectations and movies. I thought why is Veena pointing to kids examples. Like belief in Superman. How is it related to marriages ?

    Other than people doing things aping movies too much, I feel that in similar spirit as superman, movies have created concept of exceptionally good romance and relationship. I feel here that we see perfection that is too good to be true in long run. We are all humans, we have fallacies. Then why do we look for a superman equivalent of relationship ? Why ?

    Reply
  • 20. hoo  |  August 2, 2006 at 6:13 pm

    Well, a life partner needs to be a good friend at a minium. When you say friends just need to share empathy, you are talking about people you know, not friends. Good friends understand what others are going through, and can make good life partners, with some effort of course.

    In the case of arrange marriage, you have no guarantee that the person you married will even enjoy spending time with you. Especially with recent exposure to other cultures and ideas, I don’t beleive Indians will be happy marrying anyone their parents pick up in a newspaper.

    Of course, finding true love as compared to lust is also quite hard.

    Reply
  • 21. Shishir  |  August 2, 2006 at 11:22 pm

    hoo, i understand what you mean about spouse being able to enjoy same things and related fear in arranged marriage vs love one. You are in singapore, and you find a spouse form india and then your spouse does not like singapore lifestyle. Right ? How do you define this problem ? Do you blindly marry a girl in arranged ? Does a girl really have to like things you like or could she be good even if she likes other things ? Is it about finding a girl who meets minimum criteria of not disliking what you like ? Is the problem of the initial orientation one faces when one visits a new country and hence you think it will be tough to help her like singapore initially ? Is the problem that people have various preconcieved ideas about unknown things ? Is the problem that you have not searched and talked to enough girls in arranged to find someone who would fit your criterias well ? You could define the problem of spouse search in many different ways for arranged marriage. All, these will give you various facets of the problem. If you solve all, you are good.

    What are your views about the question I asked in comment 15 ? It seems you attribute 70% failure in most western countries to lust vs true love. Read http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501040405/story.html and tell me how the writer, married at 20 feeling that he had found invoiable true love, failed first time. Then married again at 30, this time too feeling that he had found true love, yet to fail again ? I know it is too specific a case, but it does highlight that seeming perfection of love, does not help it from failing. One could feel one is made for each other, to just hit a stubling block somewhere. I am not saying it happens to all. That would be like saying no one succeeds. 30% do. What I think about these 30% is that they adjust with each other in much the same way, arranged couples adjusted in past.

    As for friendship, I feel that is important to be there in relationship. You know real friendship. Where you not only spend time together going out, you also are committed and good at solving conflicts when they happen rather than quiting. Where you are ready to adjust some things for your spouse and your spouse is ready to adjust somethings for you.

    Reply
  • 22. Shishir  |  August 9, 2006 at 5:03 am

    As I said in my references section, people in todays world are ignoring facts and making same mistakes over and over again. Skilled incompetence. People doing thing which feels right without thinking and getting bad results later.

    I only hope people will finally trash the romantic movies for raising the expectations from relationship to unrealistic levels. I hope people will stop aping movies and will stop thinking that since romance is sooooo good (when aim is to woo and no need for common consequences and differences of opinions), what follows would be same. People need to realize that marraiges are not same as romance and love as shown in movies is faulty since we are dealing with humans with human follies and differences of opinions… Real humans can’t be as good as Kajol or Shah Rukh Khaan in DDLJ movie. Coz real humans have insecurities, communication problems and scientifically proven to be biologically there in every human being, the “fight or flight” response. Protagonists in love movies do not have these fallacies. Somehow, they are superhuman. One can say romance time people do not have these fallacies also. That is because at that time both are wooing each other and validating each other. At that time they do not need to adjust or settle disagreements on major issues like one invariably have to after marraige. Hence, the fallacies of human beings are less apparent during courtship. However this perfection of courtship and movies leads to wrong expectation levels. So let us look back at arranged and learn from there … look at those having good success and learn from them… and for sake of god and ourselves, not believe anything shown in movies without using our brain. Using our brain shows we care and we are mature. It helps us in long run.

    Reply
  • 23. Sushaant  |  August 9, 2006 at 11:54 am

    I agree with many things…
    However, I have something on the line, I read
    “Not all humans can be good”
    Well, we need to try to be good & overcome the problems, associated with our nature. Marking it as a deficiency, and applying it for justification of mistakes, that tend to be committed, might not help us in overcoming problems, inate to human nature. Something like, “Caste” element, is owing to nature of ours not, to explore & remain in so called “secure” and “known” zones, and thus do not allow us to go beyond caste system, when it comes to traditional way of choosing a life partner.

    Reply
  • 24. Shishir  |  August 9, 2006 at 12:31 pm

    hey thanks for the comments sushaant. Good points.

    Reply
  • 25. cydonian  |  August 9, 2006 at 12:59 pm

    I won’t comment on my own feelings on the matter (which are pretty strong, as you might imagine) for now, but will point out what I believe is are two flaws in your reasoning: -

    a) You seem to be equating longevity of marriage with personal desirability. That is, is longevity the only measure of success for a marriage? What about other factors, such as happiness, love, feelings and so on? And how would you statistically analyse factors such as those?

    b) On statistics: even if we agree that longevity is the only criterion necessary for “working system that gives a better future for us and our society”, as you put it, the statistics you quote only measure probabilities. Suppose I were to argue that, because the number of deaths in ship-bound travel is, for example, less than that for airplanes, would you stop travelling to India in an airplane? That is to say, do you always choose a less risky choice over a more risky choice?

    c) Even if you were to choose a less risky choice over a more risky choice, here’s a fundamental flaw in using those numbers: – the statistics have zero information on whether the marriages are arranged or not! We have NO idea on whether the Indian figure includes love marriages, or if the American one includes matches fixed by the respective families. In short, apart from showing that, somehow, Indian couples are less likely to divorce than American or British ones, the figures tell you absolutely nothing on the relative merits and de-merits of your two marriage options.

    On a more basic note though, my fundamental problem with the formulation is that it seems to assume that matches fixed by the family aren’t led by love. That, I believe, is an incorrect assumption to make; just because families arrange matches, it doesn’t mean that there can be no love in the process. Arranged marriages can be love marriages, and love, or rather the circumstances leading to love, can be arranged; just that, when there’s no family involved, it’s called ‘date’. When it’s arranged by the family, well, I don’t know what you call’em in Hindi, but in Telugu we call them “pel’l'i chu’pulu” (पेळ्ळि चूपुलु, literally, ‘marriage glances’) It’s a lot more elaborate, and ritualized, of course, but the essence is the same.

    So here’s a re-formulation of your question then, in, what I think is, a less biased way: how much should the family be involved in finding your future spouse? I think the answers will start rolling in much more freely, and much more personally, if you were to think along these lines.

    Reply
  • 26. cydonian  |  August 9, 2006 at 1:02 pm

    That wasn’t two points, that was four. Sorry, I apparently stop counting after 9PM everyday.

    Reply
  • 27. Shishir  |  August 9, 2006 at 1:07 pm

    Thanks cydonian for the good comments…

    Reply
  • 28. TheSeal  |  August 9, 2006 at 5:02 pm

    I am wondering. How come the writer never responded to the points raised by Cydonian here? Do you actually realised the folly in your argument or you’ll be replying to him soon? Anyways. My fifty-paisas here.

    Divorce rate in a country like India and China is the worst possible measure to judge the success of a marriage. Someone else pointed it out earlier and trust me you have no clue what sort of a life a divorcee, especially a woman, leads in our country. Try scratching the surface of India’s magnificently hypocritical society and you shall be shocked. Our superstitions, orthodoxy and 5000-years old mindset still prevents us from accepting a divorce and a woman would rather lead a disastrous marriage life than to opt for a divorce. So to put your trust in some obscure percentage is, according to me, irrational.

    Again, your conclusions are based on your classmates and collegemates. ‘Some’ of them had a HAPPY life at home. Details like – how correct is it to base your ‘judgment’ on those 100 ppl you classify as happy? Did ALL of them had arranged marriages? How economically successful the family was? Are you sure these classmates of yours told you about the happy as well as the sorrowful bits for you to reach correct conclusions? Few hundred other such assumptions have been surprisingly avoided. But again, that’s exactly how this business of statistics work.

    Marriages- in an orthodox society such as India as opposed to a country like USA or UK where ppl are fiercely independent – are extremely complex and need consistent adjustment, compromises, love and willingness to sustain be it a love marriage or an arranged one. It depends solely on the individual. Using statistics to actually ‘decide’ on things like these is ridiculous. To me, it’s just plain wrong.

    An anecdote.

    The other day my sister came upto me. She wants to pursue a career in Law. I told her that since 87.89 % of her classmates are choosing Engineering, she should keep her instincts and her real passion aside and contribute towards making the statistic even stronger. She told me she’s really really interested in pursuing Law ‘cos she knows that’s what is right for her. I drew some more charts and graphs as to how we should stick to what these statistics tell us, so that we can play safe and avoid any deviations from what the society wants us to do, rather than follow our own instincts and passions.

    Your comments on my response above would be appreciated.

    Reply
  • 29. Shishir  |  August 10, 2006 at 12:05 am

    Thanks TheSeal, for the comments. I will in few days be replying to some of the comments.

    See there is always some meat in most criticisms. I will acknowledge the meat and will tell which part I either do not agree based on opinion or based on some facts.

    Reply
  • 30. cydonian  |  August 10, 2006 at 3:03 pm

    Shishir, wanted to mention this earlier itself, but just a thought: some of us would like to not be identified by our real names on the web.

    Feel free to drop a mail or chat message if you want that personal touch or something, but as long as we’re discussing online, some of us would prefer to be called by their cyber-nom-de-plumes.

    (I’m okay, though, as long as you dont post my email ID here.)

    Reply
  • 31. Shishir  |  August 10, 2006 at 4:16 pm

    Thanks Cydonian,

    I will not comment on comments from those whom I invited comment. :) You are the guest speakers :D . I think it is better to communicate on email/msn/yahoo with you.

    Reply
  • 32. Shishir  |  August 10, 2006 at 4:57 pm

    TheSeal,

    I will talk to you on mail. Briefly only I will say my aim here is

    1. To say that arranged is not bad. Movies depict it as if it was creation of daemon and highly despicable practice of India. I assert that it is a system that if we ignore the movies and fancy magazines and look at facts we will find producing reasonably good relations. But avg indian watches more movies and less of scientifically sound stats.

    2. To say that love system needs improvement. Specially in terms of expectations etc. To say that we need to reflect and improve the system that is performing bad in most countries(Singapore, Japan and China being exceptions (yes china, love is the prevalent system and not arranged). To say it is good to be confident. It is however not good to ignore actual stats of countries which have gone through the system. Maybe we can learn from them. You read the information on UK/US etc and you will find that now there the incumbent system is Love. It is the sytem being challenged by now the defacto (I can prove by facts) live ins among the young. So, only thing I am doing is critically analysing a system before it becomes incimbent instead of after. Even those in UK are challenging the system of love as “orthodox” and “hypocritical”. I am not inventing this. I can prove this with innumerable references. All stats given about divorce rates in different countries is not my invention, even if you want to imagine that. Even if you do not agree about my claims about arranged, can you dispute the divorce rate of different countries where love is the prevelant system ? Am I inventing the divorce rates of US/UK and avg of OECD countries ? It is beyond doubt that these countries, people decide their own fate.

    Reply
  • 33. metlin  |  August 11, 2006 at 2:54 am

    There is something fundamental that you are missing out on — when we first started having partners, it was for the explicit purpose of making babies.

    Over time, social and cultural elements brought about the concept of marriage — be it with one or many, the idea was to be together. However, back then, humans did not live very long, either.

    Today, things have changed. Humans no longer die at 30, and dying at 70 is considered young. And with the advent of medical technology, you can have practice making babies at the age of 60, without breaking a sweat.

    So, this means that if you are not so inclined, there is no reason for you to be stuck with the same partner — it is my belief that the higher human longevity becomes, the less the chances of us remaining with the same partner.

    Oh, there will always be some, holding on to the same relationship because of social and cultural reasons. However, for the many wild things that are out there, a longer life would mean more people to get to know and spend your life with.

    So, the longer we live, the lesser the chances of us being with the same partner for life.

    Reply
  • 34. Shishir  |  August 11, 2006 at 4:53 am

    Depends on objectives. One could day even 50 years was a long age. Even then if the objective was to know more people by dating/marrying/livin with them, then the results would be similar.

    A lot depends on what we want from life. What is our aim. However, at times some of our aims are at war with each other. Like if aim is longevity and fun and excitement of flirting as well then, there might be some problem on boths ends.

    I also feel people should know more people and appreciate more cultures and understand them, but to do that one does not necessarily have to marry/date again and again. Again, it depends on what is your aim in life.

    Reply
  • 35. Shishir  |  August 11, 2006 at 5:07 am

    Again I am not proposing arranged as solution of all ills. I am saying arranged is not bad. However, love and any system we choose should be improved according to what would be good both for the individual and the society. Respecting the needs of both.

    Reply
  • 36. Nagaraj  |  August 11, 2006 at 9:24 am

    A good article to debate, disseminate, deep thinking and directing. Congratulations! Shishir!!

    I do agree with you and your views. I have good examples within my family, friends & relatives who got married through arranged and love. Within my family itself, I can find both sides of the coin. With the experience of 15+ years in arranged-cum-love married life (Don’t think, I am too old…. Just 37 years only), I can CONFIDENTLY say that my success in life has both strengths. My wife is a relative to me and we both liked each other. We developed love and expressed our interest to our parents. With the acceptance, we got married and living happy life with 2 children.

    At the same time, my brother has problems in arranged marriage without proper understanding, sacrifice, patience, understanding, etc issues but still they aren’t apart (Greatness of Indian culture). On the other hand, another brother is facing several problems with the love marriage due to the differences in compatibility of TWO families, immaturity, ignorance, lack of understanding, sacrifice, dominating and etc.

    Apart from my own family, I have witnessed several families and come to a conclusion that love marriages with good understanding i.e. known each other for a long period and knows each others strengths & weaknesses will lead a happy life. Those with infatuation or love at first sight kind of marriages willn’t be long-lasting. Typical examples to this category is DATING concept of Westernised cultures. Arranged marriages are mostly successfull in the countries that has high culture & tradition such as India. But without proper understanding of life partner is becoming a challenge and leading to problems. Therefore, those who are preferring arranged marriage must keep sometime to understand each other (Ofcourse, not like DATING) and then get married….

    Regards,
    Nagaraj

    Reply
  • 37. Metlin  |  August 12, 2006 at 6:19 pm

    The thought of an arranged marriage is fundamentally offensive — how can you fall in love with someone you hardly ever knew. And that — after the fact that you’ve been committed to each other.

    Ugh.

    Reply
  • 38. Shishir  |  August 15, 2006 at 2:05 pm

    Metlin, thanks for your comments. Your honesty reflects in your emotions. I do appreciate your feeling but I personally feel that this view is result of watching too many romantic movies.

    Again, I believe what is important is what is your aim ? I feel committment, trust, mutual care is more important than the rosy rosy love that is shown in movies. Real care means you are ready to adjust. What is that love which is ok till one is feeling all great but at sign of problems and things going sour, quit ?

    Why do so many people specify their status as committed and yet be unsure ? Why do people even after getting married keep doubting if they have found the right person ? Why this mentality of half hearted committment to relation ? Why not make relations work and understand that people are marrying only humans and not goddess/god ?

    A lot depends on what is your aim? If your aim is to find perfect partner with whom you will always feel happy, never have any adjustments/sacrifices to make, would always be perfect for you, then it is good to keep looking. Find first relation which seems to suit that. Then get disillusioned. Then very rightly (since aim is perfect partner), find another one and find that she/he is not god either (damn! only human!). If aim is perfection, you will have to die and marry goddess/god.

    If aim is enjoying while relation is good and then quitting when it turns sour, so always having fun in life, then it is good to keep looking also. Very logically it seems the right thing to do. You do optimize your enjoyment. I think it will not work in long run. When a relation breaks it is like an accident. It causes harm to you, your spouse, your kids, parents (indirectly), friends (indirectly in long run), society (indirectly in long run). People can recover from accidents to a large extent, but it leaves some permanent aftermaths.

    A lot depends on public opinion also. Like, in Singapore there is a big big big public opinion against littering. People will look at you with disgust if you publicly litter. This at least partially responsible for people to comply with the good rule of being responsible about littering without any policeman standing around. So if there is a very high public opinion for maintaining relationships and also a very high public opinion for healthy relationship, it will, whether you like it or not make people to maintain relationships.

    Commitment is corner stone of relationships lasting. There will be always times when people feel bad. If they subsist and solve problems they will become more mature and will pass without breaking relations. It however means one can’t always think about oneself and oneself only.

    People will point to abusive relationships to say that commitment is not good. I say there are parents who kill their kids, should we say all parents are bad ? Similarly commitment is not always bad. It is generally good.

    Finally I will say we all can benefit in communication by learning good communication skills. Which include good (critical, creative and individual) thinking, listening and speaking. By individual thinking I do not mean necessarily thinking something different from all. I mean verifying and challenging things you hear/read/see. It also means respecting people in conversation and not venting emotions, or taking things with fight or flight approach. It also means being honest. Not fighting for positions but for interests. The difference being say you say it is good to run and another says it is not. Then come back to what is the interest. You want to develop health or you want to enjoy sleep. It is easier to discuss about interests of each other and the common interests than on positions. Fighting for interest honestly also means that you are ready to consider all facts those which support your views and also those which do not and not try to hide facts you know. It means that you and others discussing are in same team trying to solve a problem and not trying to drown each other.

    Reply
  • 39. Metlin  |  August 16, 2006 at 3:25 pm

    See, you are confusing marriage with commitment — personally, I’m willing to stay committed but not married for life. Marriage is something that the society imposed on us a while ago, and something I believe will eventually go away.

    As for your take on public opinions — that is what is disgusting. People are doing it for the sake of what others think, rather than for themselves.

    And btw, marriage is just one form of commitment. Logical fallacies abound your arguments, but I won’t go there.

    At the end of the day, you can come up with a whole list of things, but I would say that those who have arranged marriages do it for others (i.e., society, parents blah blah) and those that fall in love do it for themselves (simply because they like each other).

    Go figure which one is likely to last longer in the long term.

    Reply
  • 40. Shishir  |  August 16, 2006 at 11:14 pm

    Thanks. I agree with your argument about public opinion. I think while a good public opinion is useful, it should not bind a person in anyway. The decision has to be one’s own for it to succeed. Public can be wrong. One has to think for themselves what makes sense.

    Let us look at dynamics of a fight to understand where good opinions or support of parents can help. Best of best couple would at one point of time have difference of opinion that becomes a fight. This fight can then escalate. During this time doing things for oneself would prompt one to say let me quit. However at this time if friends and parents can convince the couple that these things happen and are normal in any relation and it is in their best interest to solve the problem together, they can come back together, this time probably in lesser of high emotions and solve the problem themselves.

    You saw how support of others is often necessary to withstand the dynamics of a fight. In absence of these agents who could calm us and bring sense to us when we are in fight, there is little chance that those two are involved in fight would be able to solve it collaboratively unless they are super duper communicators through their natural experience.

    You also bring the difference between lifelong committment and marriage. Marriage you say is just a label invented by society and forced on us. So, whats the difference between a lifelong committment and marriage ? Is marriage then not just a formalisation of the committment ? Do you think anyone can find a perfect match which would never have troubles ?

    Do you think I am promoting arranged ? I am not. I am encouraging to look at facts around the world and improving whatever system you adopt. I am saying we could synthesize a system that has strength of both, or maybe something entirely new ? Entirely new thing has high risks since it is not time tested. It may end up in more troubles than solving problems initially. But some creative solution that has strengths of different systems. We could have something like harvard business review for families. Why I say HBR is because all its articles are backed up by research which can be critically analysed if needed by any individual. And yet it can be understood by a non specialist.

    Reply
  • 41. Mr X  |  September 3, 2006 at 12:26 pm

    Nice conversation going on….Btw Metlin : “personally, I’m willing to stay committed but not married for life.”..that is coz you have commitment issues and does not address the question in picture.

    Reply
  • 42. Priya  |  September 17, 2006 at 11:46 am

    I think it’s an undeletable topic. Don’t you think Marriage should be successful it hardly matters either it is arrange or love?

    Reply
  • 43. Priya  |  September 17, 2006 at 11:46 am

    I think it’s an undeletable topic. Don’t you think Marriage should be successful it hardly matters either it is arranged or love?

    Reply
  • 44. with malice towards no one  |  September 17, 2006 at 12:01 pm

    intereting read.. but many doubts..

    you towards the end have made love flexible.. you are yet to discover love sir.. if u think love is a realtive term.. you make the very mistake that you write aginst in the so called sytem of love.

    love is an absolute delight.. it is absolute in every sense of the word.. one word cannot be compared with another.. please expereince love to write about it.. you might have enhanced the readability of the piece but you lost on accuracy..

    also the system of love.. and love marriage are two different things.. across the world.. waht you call the system of love is actually marriage by self choice .. and not a love marriage or even the system of love.. both are very different… shrapen ur comprehension here.. they are not really related concepts either…

    marriage by self choice needs high maturity that is outsourced in an arranged marraige (talking inyour business language). arranged marriage needs hell lot of communication becuase someone elses opinions counts more than the primary customers opiion.. the kids have to communicate in an amicable manner about what they need in a prospective partner.. is that communication possible in todyas world? when was the last time you talked to one of your parents or seniro relative about your personal life for an hour? think about it..

    also then comes the phony statistics of divorce.. is divorce the failure of the marriage instituion.. as in is divorce the right KPI.. or do you know of dead marriages without divorce.. if you do a house to house survey .. statistics in india might come close to other statistics.. as i say MIGHT>. no one knows becuase one did.. we are all shooting in thin air.. loveless marriages are more common in arranged “system” . failed expectations but love still exists is more common in “love system” ..

    last but not the least.. have u ever applied the BCG matirx to your realtionships.. and classified which is most rewarding ? which needs to be pushed out ? and which needs to be more cared for? .. i am sure never.. well you knwo why.. marriages and relationhsips are way too different from business.. so for the sake of love keep the business indicaotrs in the business field.. it is young people who apply professional fundamentals to relationships that screw their relationships.

    on the whole dont flight.. or fight.. there is a third way.. enjyo an opinion.. enjoy this opinion ofmine.. and for fight vs. flight find somethign called EVLN . exit voice loyalty .. theory.. wil be more eye openign to you

    Reply
  • 45. Shishir  |  September 17, 2006 at 3:08 pm

    Hi Priya,

    Thanks. Human relationships i feel are quite complicated. I feel they are not all mushy mushy or utopian kind as shown in popular movies.

    Imagine, in most bollywood movies, kids are shown to have a imprefect parents who will not change their views and want someone of similar background and with their liking in mind. So the hero goes out denouncing them since they are “old fashioned” and inconvenient to them having a good life. Now my feeling is such a person who could forget all the sacrifices the parents did for him and all the good things and caring that parents did for him and denounced and brake relation with those parents because they are imperfect, how long will it take for him to find the wife too to be imprefect or inconvenient for enjoying life to fullest ? And if he could leave parents since they are imperfect (and be glorified by movies for taking an independent decision), how long before the wife’s relation will become inconvenient for him and then he will leave wife also ?

    I believe love can work if the decision are mature. That in my opinion means that it takes family along (even if they are imperfect) and takes care of practicalities of life (like if a very rich girl marries a very poor guy… realistically speaking there are high chances that when both come to living together they will have huge differences of opinions and strained relationship). So, I feel love will succeed if it is mature, practical and loving. I do not deny that the most important aspect of relation is love. I think that the love can be developed. At same time both have to be ready to solve issues and not run away when inevitable differences of opinion happen. They need to have high faith in the relationships. They need support of family.

    So basically I agree that both love and arranged can work. Both need the relation to be mature. Both need that faith and committment. Both need to understand that both the people are just humans. 

    My belief that “system of love” or as another commentor pointed to be system of self choice, has become victim of high expectations due to what movies show. Like a office colleague of mine (Singaporean girl) has had 3 or 4 boy friends till now. She then puts them through a series of practical tests which they do not know anything about. Well I would say thats not typical love. Also that is like even if the test was reversed and put on her, she would also fail it herself. Her expectations are high and fairy tale like. Another Singaporean office former colleage of mine wants the perfect match. You can see the aspiration of the fairy tale guy in her eyes. Which is cute. But I feel that high expectation is scary. It is like inviting yourself to fail. I blame these expectations on movies and fairy tales.

    People at my age are immature. Whether I agree or not, I too am immature. So, I feel those expectations are too good to be true for a person of my age and at times even for people of higher age.

    But then again this is my opinion. Lot of people disagree. Which I think is ok. Everyone has right to his or her own opinion which should be respected in my opinion.  :D

     Shishir

    Reply
  • 46. Shishir  |  September 17, 2006 at 3:35 pm

    To Malice toward no one…

    Thanks for very constructive comments. I think yours must be among the most constructive and well formed comment i got for this article.

    As I said earlier, I do believe love is great. I also believe that other than the love that brings people together, one needs mature love to keep them together. If possible if love is mature love from beginning then I feel it is even better. That mature love I will call committment and understanding of imperfection in each other. Understanding of weaknesses and strength of each other.

    I was reading a recent article where I came across what I feel is very important in all apsects of life to be success. It is to think and understand other people. Whether you marry person by self selection or by arranged if you do not think and do not understand others and understand yourself well, it is going to be a bumpy ride.

    You said that divorce statistics are phony on the ground that even if 70-80 % first marriages in most countries fail compared to 1% till recently in india, those who do not divorce might have a bad relation. I think personally (no stats) that this has been exaggerated by bollywood and brainwashed into us. I ask why in 99% bollywood movie that show arranged marriage nowadays, the guy who comes for arranged marriage is mentally retarded or a criminal kinds of person ? What is this antagonism against arranged system ? Similarly other aspects of arranged have been so distorted out of propotion in movies that it is shameful. I agree marriages are possibly not perfect by standard of DDLJ (dil wale dulhaniya le jayenge) which is my personal best movie when it comes to romantic movies… it takes everyone along.. :D and it absolutely great movie. I agree that most relationships might not be that perfect. There are two reasons I can give for it. Whether it is marraige by self choice or by systematic, objective and logical search, and however compatible the guy and girl are, they will at times have difference of opinion in my view. UNLESS. Unless, they avoid topics where opinions differ. Which is great by all standards. However when a issue is an important one both will find it tough to ignore it … and not talk about it.. or delay it indefinitely. What do you think ? What would you do if you come to a difference of opinion about a issue that can’t be delayed indefinitey nor it can be ignored. What approach will you take to address the issue ?

    Reply
  • 47. Priya  |  September 18, 2006 at 8:24 am

    Hello Shishir-ji,

    Well we can’t forget our culture, traditions, languages, people…no matter we are in any corner of the world. You are saying, “People at my age are immature. Whether I agree or not, I too am immature.” May I know why is it? Do you really feel you are immature then you should not discuss about this topic atleast…! If you consider the level of maturity regarding Marriage issue then u can observe nobody is mature in this real world- me or you even our parents also…! We should be highly responsible and concerned towards parents & other family members but see doing arrange-Marriage is not only a single way to show our respect and love towards parents & society.

    Second thing is “Love can work if the decision are mature.” Sorry to say sir but I think you have mistaken somewhere, here you have tried to compare love with infatuation. Love: Two minds without a single thought. Love is always mature because its a real synonymous of sacrifice and far way from selfishness.

    Sometimes I am also agree with you but please ask a question from yourself whenever you are in method-of-self-talk mode.

    Why are you living in hypothetical world? Don’t compare our pure and traditionally rich culture with sick and silly bollywood movies and Singaporean’s life style. Nowadays our life style is rapidly changing so the old facts and evidences will not work more. Please try to understand the essence of love and make your own viewpoints in every aspect of life. I know very well, you have to stand upon expectation of all those who know you but keep your life separate and special from other’s words and principles. The main thing is the approach that makes a man. Professional education and degrees provide you a way to make your own approach but its totally on you. Like wise I can be strong or poor in his explicit knowledge

    What you feel sir…?

    Reply
  • 48. Shishir  |  September 18, 2006 at 9:09 am

    Hi Priyaji, :)

    I agree real love is selfless. Achha tell me more about why do you consider love to be selfless ? What do you define love as ?

    I feel many a people define as selfless becuase initially one feels like one can do anything for the other person. Which is true. However many a relations start off in this euphoric state to crash land. Like 70-80% of first marraiges in developed countries like US and UK fail. It is not that these people were not euphoric when they found their partners. However with this euphoria comes a sense of entitlement to perfection in relation. Desire that it should be effortless. When nothing is. With all privilages in my opinion come responsibilities. Only thing that makes a relation work years after years even when sense of euphoria is over and people are living long life together, is committment in my personal opinion.

    There is no denying that love is a great force. Then next logical question is that how is self choice for marraige differnt from love marriage ? Is there a special way to find out whether the sense of euphoria one feels is truly lasting ? I am not sure personally.

    How does one identify true love. Let me tell you that this prediction of failure rate is quite true. As people have started looking for perfection this is what they get.

    Read this article by psychology today
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20040301-000002.html
    And this one by time magazine
    http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501040405/story.html
    What are your views on these ??

    Why do I say i am immature. It is because I make mistakes. I know I do. And at times those are signs of immaturity which I realize when I become wiser with time. So this maturity does have something to do with age. I am not saying that old people are wise and young ones are fools and can’t be wiser than the older ones. However there is a level of emotional maturity that comes with age for people who learn.

    And tell me why do people consider the relation with lifepartner as magical but with parents as a bojh ? What are your views on it ?

    My personal view is that no relation works by itself magically. It works because both people care for one another and are dedicated to one another.

    I see too many people wanting the relationship to be perfect because god has to be fair and god has to make it work. There is no sense of personal responsibility.

    The other thing I feel is miguided perception due to movies is that any human being is perfect. Are you perfect ? Then how can another human being be expected to be either perfect or the relation expected to be perfect with no bumps. The relation can be happy, but it does not mean it will not have its own bumbps.

    Then again this fellow (http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501040405/story.html) felt the euphoria twice to fall twice… read this … and this is a normal trend in places where this high expectation from relation/love has set in and people have become non adjusting coz real love should not require sacrifices or adjusting, it should be liberating and perfect. Since love is brainwashed into us to be same as god (perfect).

    I think love is a great force. It is probably the biggest force on earth. Thats what binds all of us together (unlike hate etc). I feel however the romantic (that there is one special girl for every guy) love is a popular myth (originating from stories of childhood like cinderella and snow white, which makes one feel that for every guy there is ONE girl meant whom when he meets, rest of life would be perfect. It reminds me how all fairy tales end with happily ever after. But real lives should not be lived through fairly tales. I think nothing works happily every after by magic. It works because one is dedicated and responsible and caring). The real love is the mature love that is dedicated and caring without giving up. It is the love that is not there because other person makes you feel good today. It is there because you care and even if there are troubles you and the other person will work to resolve it. I personally feel it is definitely possible in arranged and love marraiges.

    Reply
  • 49. Shishir  |  September 18, 2006 at 9:23 am

    Ohh ! I forgot to comment on some parts of your comments…

    I agree that arranged is not the only way to show respect to parents. Someone may choose it because they care for parents and may live happily with it. Some others may feel not convinced and hence they may choose other ways. Yet others may be convinced pesonally that this is the right way if you want a good relation.

    It is not right to do it because someone is forcing you against your wishes and yet you go for it. I am strongly against that. One should go for it because it is a great system. A system that has been ill potrayed by pop culture.

    I agree that times are changing and hence the sytem must change na ? It is as you said somewhat a old system. That I agree fully! It should change , change according to change realities of today.

    What do you think ?? Priya-ji :D

    Reply
  • 50. Priya  |  September 18, 2006 at 10:48 am

    Just think over these two simple lines:
    * Pleasant experiences make life delightful. Painful experiences lead to growth
    * The lucky ones are those who do what they were meant to do

    Love=marketing.
    Is it true??? If yes then I’m stopping here.
    The core concept of Marketing is not allowed in pure n sensitive committments even emotional marketing isn’t applicable in fair n decent relationship

    Reply
  • 51. Priya  |  September 18, 2006 at 10:52 am

    Motivation is a driving force for achieving any goal n emotional motive shud b prominent when sumbuddy falls in love. See we r Indian n nowadays we r doing good in this globalization era and hv already so many historical evidences, truths n facts then here is no need to take US n UK based case studies at this time…, just take most popular unforgettable examples, like..Lord Krishna-Meerabai, Shah Jahan-Mumtaz and many more.

    Love is a gr8 energy(it’s a popular dialogue of one of hindi movie I don’t remember movie’s name, hint: actress-sonali bendre n movie was based on internet romance n love)
    It makes u strong n confident n enhance ur decision making capability as well as perfection. It is strength or sickness…? It depends on you, as I wanted to mention in my second quote. Its all about- maintaing silence instead of making publicize among frnds, relatives, society, peer grps etc etc by using some stupid n pirated sentences, like… committed m in love/ i can’t live without u/u r mine only/saying again n again I love u or u love me n all same kind of stuff, real love is far away frm these kind of show-off n virtual sentences.

    Nobuddy is perfect and I’m noduddy…, haan but at least I can to achieve some level of perfection for maintaining sensitivity of ppl n enhancing series of success n orientation towards growth n development.

    Love is the foundation of any successful marriage. It is very-2 important either after marriage or before marriage(it necessary both time) and arrange word is useful for only one time(compromise b4 or after marriage)

    Reply
  • 52. Shishir  |  September 18, 2006 at 4:46 pm

    Good good, so I understand that you feel that love is a great energy. I said force. Not much difference :) Meri scince waise bhi bahut weak ho gayi hai !! I agree that love and mutual respect is very important. In fact most important part of a relation.

    I feel it can develop in arranged also :D Thanks anyways for sharing your views. Afterall we both are saying the same thing in slightly different ways. I also say love is important and so do you :D I only say that the popular love system is bit too perfectionist for my own taste. E.g. Among my indian friends here in singapore (pleny of them) I see so many breakups and half hearted committment among even the good people, it is quite disheartening. I see people thinking ohh this girl is good but I am not sure !! Or on other hand I see some breaking relationship with parents to marry someone who is miles away from the culture of family and practically excluding the family from future life. You also say that popular love system is too much oriented toward show off and not real selfless love. So I see not much difference about same things. Why not find someone who is of similar views and similar culture is my philosophy of life. Not right or wrong but simply one way of life.

    Where we do disagree, it is ok to disagree. For every one has right to personal opinions na. Nahi ??

    Reply
  • 53. with malice towards no one  |  September 18, 2006 at 5:07 pm

    you need a long mail.. but that is my perspective. your perspective could be different and we both could be right.

    why do you confuse love with love marriage.. there can be love without marriage.. and their can be love marriage with love or wihtout love.. their can be aranged marriage with love and wihtout love.. do you knwo what are the similarities and differences between these .. can they be clubbed as one for what you are saying..

    and wkae up buddy.. get out of movies.. it is not these youngsters who live on movies.. you live on internet stories that they live on movies.. have u ever challenged ur own assumptions.. remember a talisman that gandhi reitereated “check your own premises! ”

    when u say somethign profound and criticise something jsut be with that thign for some time. spend some time with these young kiddies and try to see the world from their eyes.. moveis are movies for them meant for entertainment thats why sex in movies doesnt mean doing sex on the road for them.. you might have a problem with those movies these kids can remain normal.. can u appreciate this?

    also realise that insitutions have a context.. their boundaries and rules of operations are defined according to the contextin which they function.. you yourself say that the sociao economic context is different in asia from the western world.. do you really think the same institutions can survive.? that too when u differentiate love into simple love and mature love ? (persnally i think you are too confused into this.. but never the less confusion is the frist step to clarity..)

    last and the most important point.. can u clearly define what question you are trying to answer with this post.. ? often doing this helps to make it compact and coherent.

    enjoy and again remember there can be ur and a my perspective and both can be correct…. so a reply might not be the best thing a better thing is introspection and challenging yourself.

    Reply
  • 54. Priya  |  September 19, 2006 at 6:08 am

    Thanks for saying good.
    Energy is broader term sir, meri bhee science achchee nahin but sociology thodi thik hai too its better ki societal term mei hee baat karein coz we’r discussing on social institution naa, energy-ability to do work /potential etc n force-pressure(in societal term, pls mind it) so love is not pressure haan but love is energy , still I’m sayin this in both prospective, means social science n natural science( phy + chem + bio +…etc). Love can neither be created nor be destroyed, only it can transfer from one form to another form or can say turn arnd like, frnd’s love-lover’s love, frnd’s love-husband*wife love, lover’s love- husband*wife love or any permutation-combination of two of them. (so don’t u think it’s a b’ful blend of scientific n social views in term of energy instead of force performance, project tracking, project testing…, haan but b calculative infect highly calculative in ur business-professional matters.

    I’m not fond of movies still some movies hv tried to express the real meaning of love, some of my favorites r…, devdas, hum dil de chuke sanam, raincoat n some more. In ddlj-kajol n shahrukh khan-y don’t we ppl b like this couple? b think like dat, we r actually dat kind of ppl but unfortunately nowadays we r not giving concern to our value-system, going abroad for technical education-higher degrees n getting influenced by them without comparing those things to our value-system and analyzing this either it is wrong or right? How much similar n acceptable in our society? its hard core reality of our’s. We shud b confident not insecure n always try to accept good things frm everywhr. We r already good n very secure if v r going to maintain our value system with some amount of intellect n wisdom(reason + intuition). If u hv a reason to marry with a particular girl n don’t think is she good or not? B intuitive and try to fo ahead with the proper combination of left n right brain…, u wud b successful n if still things will not going well then try to make it in ur way, now it’s a challenge for u. So just due to fear n insecure motives- u can’t say love marriage is not worthwhile…, don’t hide our weakness, shudn’t b out of control n don’t play with unethical issues.

    And at last a ques frm u…, Love makes life so confusing but without love would you want to live?

    Reply
  • 55. Priya  |  September 19, 2006 at 6:14 am

    Please delete the first one coz some lines r missin thr due to some prob frm my end or at ur ur end.

    Thanks for saying good(2 times).
    Energy is broader tem sir, meri bhee science bahut buri hai but sociology thodi thik hai too its better ki societal term mei hee baat karein coz we’r discussing on social institution naa, energy-ability to do work /potential etc n force-pressure(in societal term, pls mind it) so love is not pressure haan but love is energy , still I’m sayin this in both prospective, means social science n natural science(phy+chem.+bio+…etc). Love can neither be created nor be destroyed, only it can transfer from one form to another form or can say turn arnd like, frnd’s love-lover’s love, frnd’s love-husband.wife love, lover’s love- husband.wife love or any permutation-combination of two of them. (so don’t u think it’s a b’ful blend of scientific n social views in term of energy instead of force-mass.acceleration here acceration may b zero sometimes coz of displacement but real life fundas r based on distance only, hain naa-life kis raftaar se jaa rahi hai? Here raftaar is speed or velocity in layman lang?)

    Have you heard abt LDLC???
    Just guess…….., no then answers is “Love Development Life Cycle”
    Just copy this n paste it in google search. Did u get something relevant?
    Nahin naa then go for syntactic search also, u won’t get anything satisfactory.
    See there is no common or widely accepted theory of love in this universe, it’s a very simple word but nobuddy is able to define it properly. So, make ur own views after coming some strong point frm other side.

    Marriage is destiny. If the ultimate aim of love is marriage then its not love coz these words- negotiation, ambition, limitation, bargaining, achievement hv not ever defined in love. So don’t b calculative in personal life coz there is no LDLC prog model thru which u can see ur project(love) performance, project(love) tracking, project(love) testing…, haan but b calculative infect highly calculative in ur business-professional matters.

    I’m not fond of movies still some movies hv tried to express the real meaning of love, some of my favorites r…, devdas, hum dil de chuke sanam, raincoat n some more. In ddlj-kajol n shahrukh khan-y don’t we ppl b like this couple? b think like dat, we r actually dat kind of ppl but unfortunately nowadays we r not giving concern to our value-system, going abroad for technical education-higher degrees n getting influenced by them without comparing those things to our value-system and analyzing this either it is wrong or right? How much similar n acceptable in our society? its hard core reality of our’s. We shud b confident not insecure n always try to accept good things frm everywhr. We r already good n very secure if v r going to maintain our value system with some amount of intellect n wisdom(reason + intuition). If u hv a reason to marry with a particular girl n don’t think is she good or not? B intuitive and try to fo ahead with the proper combination of left n right brain…, u wud b successful n if still things will not going well then try to make it in ur way, now it’s a challenge for u(how much interest u hv collected frm ur professional degree, exp says tacit knowledge). So just due to fear n insecure motives- u can’t say love marriage is not worthwhile…, don’t hide our weakness, shudn’t b out of control n don’t play with unethical issues.

    And at last a ques frm u…, Love makes life so confusing but without love would you want to live?

    Reply
  • 56. Shishir  |  September 19, 2006 at 6:50 am

    Ha ha.. priya.. you do have a lot of views about love. I appreciate those and understand those. While I understand a lot of those but in my personal opinion (which seem to be the unique one) the whole concept of love is based on three pillars
    1. Trust
    2. Committment
    3. Mutual respect

    So, if you ask me I define love as such. Such a love is not devoid of reasoning. Such a love which takes people along even if they are not “convenient”. Solving problems when they happen by mutually respectful discussion rather than fighting or running away (fight or flight ?). Such love is also not devoid of emotions and caring. It is infact full of them.

    So, I completely agree that love is defined in many ways.

    Now what I am going to say is purely intellectual. It is critical of trends in world which an intelligent person should not ignore in my view. If only to find solution for these and realizing the limitations that need to be addressed. Change because you care for consequences, because you care for the world and human race… for family … for parents… for relations…

    What I was trying to achieve by this article is bring to light the limitations of popular depiction of love. A depiction that has factually brought many issues in countries where self choice and dying values are going hand in hand. Partly due to people disregarding their parents and traditions and value system for soemthing less demanding in terms of “kartavya”.
    1. Many parents live in old age homes and have weak relation with kids once kids come to some age with kids regarding them as old fashioned and useless
    2. 40% of people do not even give full committment (no to marriage, yes to bachelorhood or live in to find real compatiblity) to any relation in name of independence from societal bindings
    3. Once there are no road blocks in path of relation they are not so exciting. In india a major attraction for love is the hinderance to love(the parents). Overcoming this hinderance gives people a sense of excitement and adventure which brings them together for a common goal of showing how right they are
    4. Once there are no societal bindings (since individualism is sacred cow now and no one can be questioned on consequences of their actions as long as they are doing nothing to anyone else) love becomes a search game for perfect match or simply attraction. Since everyone is so individualistic (prove that they do not need anyone to live their life happily), relations become a matter of convenience for many(not all ofcourse). I am saying while people should epxress themselves as indivisual ofcourse (people always have), they should also think about their kartavyas. Kartavyas are not enforced on anyone. They are not the law and hence easy to ignore.
    5. So out of 60% who do go for marriage by attraction/love fail 50% of time.
    6. This helps the country when whole population ages and there are very less number of people to replace those who are there. So there is a large aging population which had a lot of fun in their hay days and never performed most of their kartavyas.
    7. These countries have two ways of going ahead in face of declining population which can earn and huge population that is aging (full of DINKs (double income, no kids), bachelors, other wierd characters who never could get relations to work since they were individualisitic and always thinking about themsleves and were perfectionist and so feeling that maybe they have not found the right person yet ), one is to let the country die and other is to get people from places like india where arranged marraige was the norm and there is very good collection of hardworking and intelligent people and a bad political system.
    8. What when this individualism and perfectionism becomes a global phenomena and there are no indias to fill the world with ?? When india too becomes individualistic place where people talk big about rights and ignore the social kartavyas because they need no one to live life happily ?? What then ??
    9. The question is … is anyone perfect ? People can be good but it is always making a relation work that makes it work. It means caring and dedication and committment are required. And I feel better communication skills too are required.

    This is my intellectual level analysis of the probelms that world is facing .. and tresnds in india are also toward inidividualism and forgetting the kartavyas…

    I would say what I learnt in my sanskrit class once… Maara hua dharma hi maarta hai … aur paalan kiya hua daharma hi baachata hai… (by dharma here it means the responsibility)

    Reply
  • 57. Shishir  |  September 19, 2006 at 6:56 am

    I also do not agree that India is immune to this individualism, consumerism and lack or realiziation of kartavya problem. It is not is quite evident from current trends. And I think that people go into relation looking for perfection and do feel they have found perfection. Only later they feel ohhh. I made a mistake… I am missing the perfection … Ofcourse some people are more mature and have no troubles.

    Reply
  • 58. Priya  |  September 19, 2006 at 8:59 am

    Nice to know abt ur views but thnx to me for giving this chance of intellectual analysis. So finally logical n satisfactory points are coming frm ur side.

    You said the concept of love is based on three pillars
    1. Trust
    2. Commitment
    3. Mutual respect
    But I think the concept of these three things r based on love. Love is independent n simple n very much free frm any calculation…like- G/T ratio (GIVE & TAKE ratio).
    Don’t bother abt ur G/T ratio, ppl usually try to achieve their break-even-point in their personal life and this is the basic reason of failure in any relationship.

    Have u heard abt Kaizen? Please search n think over it, its a Japanese concept n works like an umbrella, every quality-control,mgmt,assurance,imrovement concepts comes under this word. In nutshell we can say its an abstraction-a bird’s eye view on quality n its related issues n practices. So love is like this concept. Do some amount of analysis over here.
    Kaizen must operate with three principles in place:
    1. process and results(not results-only);
    2. systemic thinking(i.e. big picture, not solely the narrow view); and
    3. non-judgmental, non-blaming(because blaming is wasteful)
    Same things are exactly applied in love also.

    Love is always good in any PR, either in frndsip or marriage or any other commitment.
    It helps to develop clarity in every aspect of our life- shud do or not shud do coz it deals the concept of high self efficacy here we can build up will do approach instead of can do.(if u’r a proj manager or team leader in ur org then see the diff between these two sentences: 1. I can do this work 2. I will do this work) Love exists with perfection n agreement of thoughts.

    It is all abt sharing, caring, concern, compassion, orientation……. life will become easier n simplistic in each way. Everything comes after this single word even man comes after dat.

    Reply
  • 59. Shishir  |  September 19, 2006 at 10:50 am

    I agree that GT thingy is bit absurd sounding for me… it signifies lack of committment and trust… It sounds too much like an accountant and disprects the faith that one has in one another. What do you think ?

    I also think that some times there is lack of that caring and faith and the gt things goes bad by iteself. :D

    I have read about Kaizen. I actually read very briefly about it. It was so brief that only thing I noticed was gradual improvement method in contrast to radical change. What you told me is both interesting and new to me.

    I agree with the blaming game thing. It never helps :D

    Chalo nice to know your views… :)

    Reply
  • 60. Priya  |  September 19, 2006 at 12:07 pm

    GT-Really absurd thing :-(
    I do agree also, but sir i wasn’t talking abt u…, so final observation is- lack of committment n trust, that’s y so called love marraiges r lagging behind arrange marraiges. this is the actual fact but nobuddy will b ready to accept these things naa.

    Accountant- dealing with expectations, balancing inflows-outflows in PR, its not good. I think so :-(
    U r using right term at right place, but nowadays ppl r using this business concept in our real life n relationship is going to be commercialized (commercialisation of emotional committments). Nobuddy is worry abt it, coz of his/her money minded attitude/orientation. Expectations r so high instead of thinking dat- wat i’m? whr i stand? whr i’ll go? n whr i’ll end up? Less EQ, CQ & SQ r major probs here.

    Anyways thnx 4 ur quick response.

    Reply
  • 61. Shishir  |  September 20, 2006 at 3:44 pm

    Thanks to you ma’m ! For initiating an interesting exchange of thoughts :)

    Reply
  • 62. Priya  |  September 21, 2006 at 6:07 am

    Many thanks to you also for all quick responses and intellectual analysis over my thoughts & ideas. Fair & frank suggestive and ideas are always welcome in my tour also.

    I really thank you for your very informative, enlightening and interesting article, with some useful info, i.e. quite good and helpful to me and all of us. It was a fantastic topic and indeed very educative in which I was having more confusion for the past days. Got some better viewpoints with great deal of analysis. The info you have provided is damn good, I appreciate it and I feel that it would be great if people are aware and informed about these vital stats. I mean to say that it would be better to give updates if you learn more on the topic.

    A suggestion from my site- it wud b good if u visit http://www.krify.com there u can post some technical as well as management articles.

    Anyways you are going well. Its a good job with great research…!!! So, please do post more articles.

    Reply
  • 63. Kunal Kothari  |  November 10, 2006 at 11:45 am

    To my preference i will opt for arrange marriage. my philosopy is little bit different.

    in love marriage there is always feeling of geting life started great guns but will not have any portion of sacrifice or commintment. For e.g. if i marry to my current GF & then what will happen after marriage. if i will ask for water / tea by coming back to office she may reply “pls honey do it urself i m tired”. now in arranged marriage case she will hestitate to give such answers & will do all asked favours.

    on other hand if she(GF) askes me to go out for dinner for a particular restaurant after marriage then i would not think and give answer “No darling i will like go to my favourite restaurant” & on other hand in arrange marriage case, i will agree with her to go to her decided restaurant.

    So i end up concluding that arrange marriage work wonders as compare to love marriage

    Reply
  • 64. Sapna  |  November 21, 2006 at 12:23 pm

    gOT a JoKE n Wanna share with u all….

    It’s funny when ppl discuss
    LOVE MARRIAGE vS ARRANGED.

    It’s like asking someone,
    if sucide is better or being murdered.

    Reply
  • 65. shamita roy  |  November 21, 2006 at 12:27 pm

    yaar y u r wasting ur precious time in writing such kind of useless stuff. just be creative n thought logically.

    love is everything. its gr8 but not ur blogs…!!!

    Reply
  • 66. Shishir  |  November 21, 2006 at 1:02 pm

    :) gee, thanks for the comment and nice joke ! As they say, those who marry repent and those who do not, also repent…

    Reply
  • 67. Tulika Sharma  |  November 22, 2006 at 7:03 am

    ONE OF MY FRND JUST TOLD ABT THIS BLOG BUT ON READING I FIND IT A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME. TO MY PERSONAL OPINION U SHUD STOP WRITING ON SUCH BLOGS TO MY CONCLUSION THE ONLY OBJECTIVE OF YOURS TO WRITE THIS BLOG IS ONLY ONE OF THE INDIRECT WAY TO CHAT WITH GIRLS.

    Reply
  • 68. Shishir  |  November 22, 2006 at 7:11 am

    yeah ? how did you conclude that ? I have too many friends who are girls… and do a check most of the comments are from guys and I do not try to “strike” a conversation this way.
    It is however ok if you feel that. It is your opinion. When you say that it is waste of time, what are you trying to say ? Do you mean that the logic given is bad, facts given are bad or you think that thinking about such things and discussing them is bad in itself since people should just go into love with a faith that it is the best without looking at what problems others are facing around the world ?

    Reply
  • 69. Tulika Sharma  |  November 23, 2006 at 5:37 am

    wat do really want to say? pls ellaborate…!

    Reply
  • 70. Shishir  |  November 24, 2006 at 5:59 am

    ok what I want to say is this
    1. See today’s kids have a problem with parent. The problem seems to be that either parents are being unreasonable or kids are being unreasonable or both are. Example of parents being unreasonable could be parents wanting to marry one to someone very bad and without full consent of one. It is unlikely to happen in most of well educated families of today. Other case could be that kids want to assert their ego and completely want to not consult parent’s mature opinion and considerations like marrying someone of such a different culture that for parents at age of 45+ it is tough for them to understand them. This would mean the parents are out of one’s life. This I think is bad repayment to parents for having taken care of us when we were not able to take care of ourselves. Just because we today are capable should not mean that we completely disregard the desires of parents(in most cases it is possible to talk out things with win win situation). Such collaboration I believe will help with some mature insights into marriage by parents and prevent us from making mistakes one can make at this age.
    2. All over world the system of self choice has been giving dismal performance. People get together with lot of fanfare but very often with equally big fanfare they part ways. This does not always happen but it is a shame that it happens quite often. This is statistics which can be verified and yet no movie shows the scientifically reseached pitfalls in love relations. They instead tend to show things like what omkara shows. The girl wants to marry a goon. Goon is a great guy at heart (honest thief, the oxymoron) and girls parents are shown as the heartless snobs who are coming in her hearts way in trying to prevent her from marrying the goon. If you had a kid would you want her to marry a goon ? Would you ? And yet movies glorify the girl for her running away from parents in name of love. Does love justify everything ? Is the whole mistake that of parents only ? Or should childern be also condemned for not listening and thinking they are invincible and need not listen to anyone anymore ? Is lack of listening not a potentially harmful communication deficiency? Is thinking about just oneself not selfish ? Has our culture not condemened being too selfish or materialistic or be too much effected by maya ? Has it not always said that kartavya/responsibility is as important as adhikar/rights ? Has it not praised kids like shravan ? Is relationship with girl/boy friend magical/divine and that with parents not divine ?
    3. The concept of soulmate. The effortless relationship. If your relationship with parents, brothers and sisters is not effortless and requires being stable and respectful of each other, how can anyone be there with whom you would not need to be similarly respectful to make relationship work ? If one can terminate relationship with parents to start another relationship, will the person think twice to terminate the relationship with spouse when it becomes sour ?

    Reply
  • 71. Tulika Sharma  |  November 25, 2006 at 5:39 am

    i think u r not able to understand wat i was trying to say. anyways, it is much advicable if u take some help frm others.

    Reply
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